Is it insulinoma??

My girl Hope started having seizures today and is exhibiting symptoms of insulinoma....reading up on this she has had symptoms for awhile now (at least a couple months) ..... I can't get her into the vet until tomorrow morning so have been doing the honey on her gums and it has helped.....I did get her to eat some duck soup and drink a bit too....she is so lethargic and I'm so scared for her.....I pray she makes it through the night....if she does....what kind of hope is there for her?? This disease will eventually take her wont it??

Hello and Welcome to the forum!
I would keep feeding her duk soup as often as you can and keep watching for a crash which you will need to do the honey or you can use the white Karo syrup. The vet needs to check her blood glucose level which will determine if she has insulinoma. It does sound like what it could be. She will need to be put on prednisolone if she is. Prednisolone is easier on their systems than regular prednisone. I divide the dosage so I can give half in the am and half in the pm so it's in their system continually. With treatment they can live a good life but it needs to be treated. Also if you end up giving the pred you will need to follow with duk soup. Pred is hard on the tummy. I give PepcidAC also before the pred to help the tummy. I can give you the dosage I use if you need me to. Just pm me. Please keep us updated.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

Hi there.  
Insulinoma is generally not curable, but with a proper diet and pred your fuzzy can still have a normal life.  We have had several cases and they all lived out there normal life spans.  

We don't use pepcid, tho.  

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

She is acting better this morning and even trying to move about her cage some.....she ate a little more duk soup this morning too.....thanks for the information and I'll keep you posted

dobiqueenx1


She is acting better this morning and even trying to move about her cage some.....she ate a little more duk soup this morning too.....thanks for the information and I'll keep you posted

Well, it is what I feared...insulinoma. I have to give her the tablet form of prednisoline until the liquid comes via mail and they flavor it so I chose chicken. Going to the store tonight to pick up some high protein items for her.  She was showing signs of blindness as well at the vets. Does this go away once her sugars are more level? I forgot to ask my vet that. Luckily for me, the receptionist there used to work for a ferret foster home and gave me great advise on her diet and also made me feel much more at ease with this disease. I know I'm just biding time with her but I hope it's a LOT of time and she continues to live a full life with what time she has left.

I make my own baby food.  (duck/chicken soup)  It much cheaper than purchasing the baby food.  baby food can run you est.  1.00 a jar.

What I do is;

Purchased a whole chicken from Wal-mart.   (5.00)

Cook the chicken in a crock pot until it's done.
Let the chicken cool.

Then bring out my blender.

I pick away the meat and skin  (no bones).  Blend that up in the blender with the chicken broth, until it's smooth.

I will add some heavy whipping cream to the mix.  This will help put on weight.


You can put the soup into ice cube trays for individual servings or in freezer containers.  All my kids get soup every morning....as a healthy treat.  I freeze my in plastic containers.  Five lb. chicken will last me about one month.  (6 furkids at home getting soup).

I hope this helps

wenmister


I make my own baby food.  (duck/chicken soup)  It much cheaper than purchasing the baby food.  baby food can run you est.  1.00 a jar.

What I do is;

Purchased a whole chicken from Wal-mart.   (5.00)

Cook the chicken in a crock pot until it's done.
Let the chicken cool.

Then bring out my blender.

I pick away the meat and skin  (no bones).  Blend that up in the blender with the chicken broth, until it's smooth.

I will add some heavy whipping cream to the mix.  This will help put on weight.


You can put the soup into ice cube trays for individual servings or in freezer containers.  All my kids get soup every morning....as a healthy treat.  I freeze my in plastic containers.  Five lb. chicken will last me about one month.  (6 furkids at home getting soup).

I hope this helps

I was thinking as well, some ground turkey, boil it so it doesn't get greasy.  (or maybe hamburger the same way?) Is the duk soup good to feed them too on a more regular basis as I've normally given that as a sort of treat? 

I was thinking as well, some ground turkey, boil it so it doesn't get greasy.  (or maybe hamburger the same way?) Is the duk soup good to feed them too on a more regular basis as I've normally given that as a sort of treat?

Your little one might taken to the soup then the ground turkey. Doesn't hurt to offer both.  Chicken greasy will not hurt them.  My furkids are not fan of hamburger (beef).


Yes, duck soup is good to feed on a regular basis.  Key here is not to feed too much duck soup that they go off their kibbles.
Duck soup is high in protein....that will keep his  BG up.


When I had kids that had insulinoma...I gave them soup 3 or 4 times a day.  I work during the day.  Am feeding/after work/ then later in the evening before I went to bed.  Weekend, I had more time....gave the extra feeding.


Duck soup is good to put their meds in...You can put the preds into the soup.  This way, you are not stressing out your ferret.

We make soups with ground kibble and raw ground turkey.  Add warm water to make a thin mush.  Sometimes they will just lick up the water, so we add water to keep it wet until it's finished.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

I haven't been able to get her to eat at all tonight...this worries me as I know I need her to eat to help her BG all the more...I'm boiling the turkey right now and will cool that and try it when it's cooked, but she wouldn't touch the duk soup or any of the beef baby food I purchased....I'll keep trying....I'm quite worried about her....

If she won't eat you may need to use a syringe for a while. Sometimes if mine are being picky I rub some on their gums until they start eating it. Likely she's not feeling well just yet and they don't always want to eat when they don't. I hate to force them but sometimes with insulinoma you have to. Have to keep that BG up. Now that's she's getting pred it will help her feel better and it usually boosts the appetite. I feed soupy to my 5 three times a day. Morning/noon/night. I have 2 adrenal boys. 

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

thank you bandit99....she DID finally eat a bit ago...I did a mixture of beef baby food with the duk soup, and she actually ate quite a bit and drank from a syringe as well....I then let her pull herself around on the floor for awhile to move about. I do have another question. She's still doing a jolting or twitching action. will this continue? I had to kind of put her head in my hand to steady it a bit while she lapped up the food off a spoon otherwise her head was jolting a bit. Also, how long does it take until we see some improvement, like in her eating more normally and on her own, getting about better, etc? How long before the prednisole kicks in?

If she is not imprinted on soup. Then you will have to sit down with her and feed her. Once, she figure out that this stuff is not going to kill her. *LOL* and it's good stuff. She will start eating it on her own. You can sit down and spool feed her...slowly move the spoon away and the dish closer to her. Work with your little one until she starts eating the soup on her own. Good luck and keep us posted.

I'm not sure about the jerking motion. But you should see an improvement soon. The pred doesn't usually take long to help. Just keep a good eye on her and if you're still concerned I would call the vet and ask.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

She's not doing so good....yesterday when my daughter got home from school Hope began to crash again....this time was worse as she bit her tongue and lip, I believe even broke a tooth during the episodes and my daughter said she was screaming out this time....vet said to keep pushing the syrup then push the protein once she's settled....when I got home from work she was like in a coma...I couldn't get a reaction from her at all except every so often she'd lift her head and open her mouth like she was chatting and a few seconds later would be out again....kept putting syrup on her gums off and on. She then seemed to have another smaller episode and I took advantage then and force fed her very watered down baby food bit by bit.....did this over a period of a couple hours then gave her more syrup .... Force fed her again this morning and will continue doing this throughout the day today.....the vet also increased her pred to double what it was....she must have moved about some during the night as she was out of the box I've had her in this morning and had piddled....I'm not going to hold much hope for her getting better at this point because as of now, to me she's not doing well...I have a sinking feeling in my heart I will have to take her in and put her suffering to an end....yesterday morning I'd even noticed that she must have injured her leg during the night as on the inside of her back right leg it's all bruised and a ver dark purple....no swelling but just looks painful....I feel so lost as I feel like I'm fighting a loosing battle and don't want her to suffer!! I love her too much to allow that....when do I know it's time?

I'm so sorry you both are going through this. I had one little one that the vet gave me liquid dextrose for crashes. She gave me a dosage and I gave it to her with a syringe. You are doing the right thing when she is crashing. Syrup then high protien soupy. Hopefully the new pred dose will help.
The way I usually can tell it's time is in their eyes. They loose that spark. But also with insulinoma they don't feel well if their BG is low. So their eyes may not be nice and shining. My thoughts and prayers arer with you both. Let us know how she is doing. You can pm me if you want.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

bandit99


I'm so sorry you both are going through this. I had one little one that the vet gave me liquid dextrose for crashes. She gave me a dosage and I gave it to her with a syringe. You are doing the right thing when she is crashing. Syrup then high protien soupy. Hopefully the new pred dose will help.
The way I usually can tell it's time is in their eyes. They loose that spark. But also with insulinoma they don't feel well if their BG is low. So their eyes may not be nice and shining. My thoughts and prayers arer with you both. Let us know how she is doing. You can pm me if you want.

dobiqueenx1


My girl Hope started having seizures today and is exhibiting symptoms of insulinoma....reading up on this she has had symptoms for awhile now (at least a couple months) ..... I can't get her into the vet until tomorrow morning so have been doing the honey on her gums and it has helped.....I did get her to eat some duck soup and drink a bit too....she is so lethargic and I'm so scared for her.....I pray she makes it through the night....if she does....what kind of hope is there for her?? This disease will eventually take her wont it??

I think I'm to the point where I can finally update you all on Hope....(but still knocking on wood)...after force-feeding her every few hours and giving her karo syrup with a bit of water ALL weekend, she finally acted a tiny bit better on Sunday evening, even acting like she was hungry. I called my vet on Monday and increased her prednisolone to .25 of the liquid, and every day she's showing progress, even trying to take steps this morning on ALL 4 LEGS!!!! She's much more alert now and has a good appetite. I'm still praying she can keep improving to where she can find & use her litter box (at least 2 baths/day for her now), find her water and maybe begin eating her kibble in her cage as well. Then it too would be much easier for me to just give her moist protein based food to eat along with even leaving some for her during the day while I'm at work, etc. She's not to that point yet. She did lap some of her ferret-vite last night as well and took a couple bites of one of her treats....I'm hoping he continues improving because as of last Thursday, I thought I'd be taking her to the vet to put her to rest by the beginning of this week. Thank you for all your advise as it's really helped. Here's to hoping for Hope to continue getting better to be able to act more herself soon....

She has a great mom.  Continued goos thoughts and prayers.  Give her a hug for me.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

Thank you.....it's been hard and the "trip" isn't over but I'm praying for continual positive blessings where Hope is concerned....

I'm so very happy to hear she is improving. I know how exhausting it is when they are sick and you have to feed them so often. You are a good mommy. It sounds like she is on the road to getting back to being a ferret again. It's amazing how low they can get and still bounce back. I'm  praying for continued good updates.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

bandit99


I'm so very happy to hear she is improving. I know how exhausting it is when they are sick and you have to feed them so often. You are a good mommy. It sounds like she is on the road to getting back to being a ferret again. It's amazing how low they can get and still bounce back. I'm  praying for continued good updates.

Oh, can I ask everyone a couple quick questions on this subject....?  #1 does anyone know where I can get some syringes with just a slightly bigger hole at the end so as I get her to thicker and thicker food, it doesn't get stuck then shoot all over the place (lol). I've tried our local pet store, my vets and Fleet Farm by the farm animal items and still unable to find one.  #2, what are some alternatives to high protein foods I can give her? Since her appetite has increased, it's going to cost me a small fortune with the meat baby food I've been giving her, which she's eating and likes, and works great in the syringe, but yeah, not so cheap....thanks again everyone for your help....

I order my syringes from Amazon. Usually only takes a couple of days. I paid $22 for 100 and on mine there was no shipping. I look for the ones that say no shipping. They have a varity of sizes. If one company doesn't have what you want another may have.

On the soupy this is what I've been doing for my 5. I boil a chicken in water, no spices. After it's done I let it cool. Tear it off the bone. Then I put some of the meat  in my food processor. (you can use a blender) I add enough broth for the consistency I want, add an egg, a little heavy cream and some pure pumpkin. Pumpkin for hairball preventive. You wouldn't have to add it. The heavy cream not only helps put weight on but also make the soupy creamier and easier to get through a syringe. I syringe 2 babies 3x's a day. I'm able to use the small syringe. Boiling a chicken costs a lot less than buying baby food although I do keep some on hand.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

http://www.pet360.com/product/54410/innovet-feeding-syringe-10mm-tip?utm_source=bingshopping&utm_medium=cse&extcid=CSEBS&mr:referralID=e2c85f41-cf22-11e4-8635-001b2166becc

these have a 10mm tip instead ot the small tip on medication syringes.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

Just got back from the vet as they wanted to recheck her BG....originally it was so low it didn't even register....she was now up to I believe she said 54 which is still low but better....she'd like to see her in the 80's.....she's going to check into adding that other medication and will call me with the cost.... I think it may be diazoxide....I've heard this is very expensive and I'm afraid when she calls me with the price....that I won't be able to afford it!! She said she cannot increase the pred anymore as she's at the highest dose of 0.25ml....and she has also plateaued and won't improve any further without it!! I don't know what to do....I want her better but what if I cannot afford it??

Oh thank goodness....the vets office just called and it's not as bad as the internet made it seem....it'll be $36 for a 180 dose supply and we can take her pred back down to 0.1ml once we start her on the other meds....this is great news.....I was reading a cost of about $130/mo. Oh and just an FYI....I did find the same syringes you mentioned here uncle joke and I'd actually gotten the on Drs Foster and Smith for $4.99 each.....now....the vet also mentioned switching her food to a higher protein one....she's been on des foster and smith signature series premium ferret food her whole life but it's only 38% protein (I thought it was higher) .... I did find on there site one called Wysong Ferret Epigen 90 which has 90% meat content and is 62% protein which is the highest I've found.....do any of you know of any even higher in protein??

The 90 in Epigen 90 means 90% meat products.  Other than raw or freeze dried raw I don't think you can find higher.
Epigen has had some issues in the past year or so but supposedly they're all better now.  It's not cheap, but if you only have one ferret maybe not so bad.  I would mix it in slowly with the DFS until I got to about 50;50.  Going from a kibble to full meat will probably cause some strange poops.  

For a while we fed 8in1 Ultimate crunchy, ~44% protein, but a couple years ago every ferret in the house stopped eating it all at once.  Have you tried soups?

I was also under the impression that diazoxide could run $130/month. I'm glad you can get for a lot less.  I should ask our vet about it before Jaffa needs it.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

What types of soups? Duck soup? Yes  and she has been getting that and also baby food meet.....I've also been mixing a bit of duck soup in with ground turkey but thought she should probably also get some dry in her diet??

We grind our kibble in a coffee grinder and mix it with wet meat cat food and raw ground turkey.  This boosts the protein content.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

Update...well...she's been on the additional med for nearly a week and no further improvements....they took her pred. Down to .1 from .25 when we added this New med and it seemed to me that her back legs got weaker....a few day ago I increased her pred then to .15 and the other med she's at .3....I may increase her pred to .2 tomorrow and see if any more of an improvement....she still won't eat on her own except to lick up a bit off a plate which isn't enough to sustain her....so we have to keep syringe feeding her....I'm so very exhaustedfrom lack of sleep and trying to work a full time job and care for her and everything with home life....I don't know how much longer I can do this....I'm also now experiencing quite a bit of pain in my right hand from the syringe feedings where my hand cramps up and I even have gotten a couple blisters....do you think I'm fighting a loosing battle??

I didn't think when they added the other med they decreased the pred. I always thought it stayed the same. You will know when it's time to let her go. They lose the spark in their eyes and they refuse to eat no matter how hard you try. I hope she still will turn around. Sometimes it looks hopeless and all of a sudden they are better.

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

bandit99

She definately has a twinkle in here eyes yet....I think I'm just frustrated at how quickly she went from acting normal to having to syringe feeding her. I did increase the pred back up to .2 yesterday and if still not improvement I'll go back up again to where she was before adding the other med which was .25. I think my vet was just hoping we could drop the pred to give us room to move down the road if necessary.  She is using her litter box pretty much all the time now when she's in her cage anyways, so the last thing is just getting her to hopefully eat and drink on her own...I hope and pray she will and soon....I don't believe she's drinking either so a good thing we're feeding her watered down food so she gets liquids that way at least. She's put on some weight now too which is good as before her ribs stuck out somewhat....she constantly is doing this little grinding thing with her teeth too which makes it a bit harder to feed her....but I do believe her sight is back as well as she appears to look at us when in her playpen, etc...I'm just getting burnt out but cannot see giving up on her at this time since she's doing well with everything BUT eating on her own...
I didn't think when they added the other med they decreased the pred. I always thought it stayed the same. You will know when it's time to let her go. They lose the spark in their eyes and they refuse to eat no matter how hard you try. I hope she still will turn around. Sometimes it looks hopeless and all of a sudden they are better.

Grinding their teeth usually means pain. I wonder if she could have an ulcer. I think they use carfate for that. Do you give her anything so the pred doesn't bother her tummy. Can't remember if I mentioned using PepcidAC or not. My tablet is being slow today and I tried to look through the posts. I may have mentioned it in a pm. I buy 10mg PepcidAC. I crush 2 1/2 pills. I put it in a baby food jar and add 10cc's of water and mix. It lasts a while in the frig.  I give 0.15ml  with a 1ml syringe. Thats half way between 0.1ml  and 0.2ml. Some give it a few minutes before the pred. 

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

bandit99


Grinding their teeth usually means pain. I wonder if she could have an ulcer. I think they use carfate for that. Do you give her anything so the pred doesn't bother her tummy. Can't remember if I mentioned using PepcidAC or not. My tablet is being slow today and I tried to look through the posts. I may have mentioned it in a pm. I buy 10mg PepcidAC. I crush 2 1/2 pills. I put it in a baby food jar and add 10cc's of water and mix. It lasts a while in the frig.  I give 0.15ml  with a 1ml syringe. Thats half way between 0.1ml  and 0.2ml. Some give it a few minutes before the pred. 

Hmmm, strange as she's been doing this off and on since the beginning....I normally make sure she has food in her tummy before giving her the pred so her tummy isn't empty when giving it then...I'll mention it to the vet when I see them next. I take our dog in this Friday for his annual, so I can ask then...she goes back in next Friday to recheck her BG...thanks for the information here though...quite helpful...I will pick some up when I go do the grocery shopping tomorrow night...won't hurt to try...this poor girl though...she's a walking pharmacy kinda like me now...lol

dobiqueenx1

Oh, I forgot to ask...do you give this dose just once per day or how often?? Thanks

bandit99


Grinding their teeth usually means pain. I wonder if she could have an ulcer. I think they use carfate for that. Do you give her anything so the pred doesn't bother her tummy. Can't remember if I mentioned using PepcidAC or not. My tablet is being slow today and I tried to look through the posts. I may have mentioned it in a pm. I buy 10mg PepcidAC. I crush 2 1/2 pills. I put it in a baby food jar and add 10cc's of water and mix. It lasts a while in the frig.  I give 0.15ml  with a 1ml syringe. Thats half way between 0.1ml  and 0.2ml. Some give it a few minutes before the pred. 

Hmmm, strange as she's been doing this off and on since the beginning....I normally make sure she has food in her tummy before giving her the pred so her tummy isn't empty when giving it then...I'll mention it to the vet when I see them next. I take our dog in this Friday for his annual, so I can ask then...she goes back in next Friday to recheck her BG...thanks for the information here though...quite helpful...I will pick some up when I go do the grocery shopping tomorrow night...won't hurt to try...this poor girl though...she's a walking pharmacy kinda like me now...lol

We give Pred to Pirate for Lymphoma but our vet prescribed 1ml 2X a day after reading your post and replies I have to verify this amount. She also suggested Pepto to coat the tummy .25ml of pepto We know how you feel about the battle, we are going through a similar one now. Wish you and fuzzy all the best

I give the Pepcid with each dose of pred. It does help that you give soup with each dose too. That's what I always do.  If she is having problems with her tummy could be part of the reason she doesn't want to eat. 

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!

Got some great news today.... Hope's BG was up to 89 when tested again today!!! She was at 54 a little over 2 weeks ago when the very added dizoxide was added.... She would like for me to try and reduce the Pred some and see how she does not that she's been on the dioxide for a bit so if she crashes again we have somewhere to go with her meds because right now we can't raise it up much as she's on. 20pred right now.... She said to wait a week and try again.... Even her very said she's feeling better because she fistier than what she had been.... She's acting near normal but still getting the bulk of her meals via syringe but is using her litter box now and we put her hammock back up in her cage and she used it once in a while.... Today is a good day to smile!!!

Good news!  Are you still offering her her regular food?  She may start getting her appetite back.

THE DOOKS OF HAZARD

For sure.... This whole time but she hasn't touched it but it is there if she wants it

That is such great news!!!!!

 
Fuzzbutts Rule!