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 A year later, bite training still isn't working.
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Halospite

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A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Sunday, July 06, 2014 2:56 AM
Last year I adopted a two-year-old ferret called Komachi. She's a sweetheart (well, not really :P ) and I love her to bits, but she's been here for a year now and her biting problem has not let up.

She was a rescue ferret -- she was surrendered when she bit her ex owner's friend so hard it went down to the bone. But my family's had ferrets for years of varying levels of nippiness so I had no problem taking her in, or trying to train her. The problem is, it's been a year now and nothing's worked.

If I scruff her and scold her, the moment I put her down she lunges at me again, angrier than before. Rinse and repeat -- days, weeks, months, it doesn't work at all. Bitter apple spray did not work, she just ignored the taste and kept on biting. Time out did not work; she might be a bit quieter coming out but then she'd go back to biting.

After about eight months of this constant back-and-forth on what was literally a daily basis, I got frustrated and started to ignore the biting. And... it worked, to a certain extent. She'd chew away on my hands and I'd ignore her, so she stopped biting my hands. But then she started biting my feet instead! And although ignoring her is the best thing that's worked so far, the foot-biting is way too painful. She's also taken to crawling into my clothes and scratching me.

I let her out every day in the evenings, and often take her out of a cage for a quick cuddle during the day. I play with her every day, though I can only last about 10-20 minutes before the biting gets too much and I let her play by herself for about an hour before I put her back.

In spite of her nippiness I love her dearly -- strangely, she's never drawn blood once, and she actually bites me less than anyone else who tries to touch her. I can hold her for longer before she starts biting me (when I first got her it was like trying to hold a hot potato with teeth). 

Her behaviour makes me think she's doing this for attention. If she sees me, she is after me -- crawling up my leg, sitting in my lap, chomping on me, scratching at the baby gate to get at me if I'm standing outside it. But I give her as much attention as I can and it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe I need to be a lot more intensive?

Help? 
<message edited by Halospite on Sunday, July 06, 2014 2:58 AM>
xxLAYUPxx

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Sunday, July 06, 2014 4:02 PM
With the biters I have had, I would let them out to play themselves out before trying to hold them. A ferret with all the energy from just waking from a nap does NOT want to listen or learn much.

Also, I have tasted the Bitter Apple spray myself (I was deciding between it and the BitterYUCK! spray, thread here: http://forum.ferret.com/tm.aspx?&m=52952&mpage=6 and about half way down the page is my little story about it) and it's not the most effective of the sprays out there, in my own opinion. My nephew ferret, Maximus, actually seemed to almost LIKE the Bitter Apple spray taste. He'd almost lick it off (between rough bites, lol).

Use a toy to play with her, so if she does nip/bite, it won't be on your skin. But I really recommend playing her out before trying to snuggle her and teach her not to use those teeth on you. Every time she gets your skin, reprimand her so she knows you mean it. Consistency is key. With Dharma, it did get worse for a bit before it started to improve. Pixie gradually nipped/bit less and less frequently. She was easier.

Some ferrets like to get their humans' feet. Wear some shoes if you have to.

It took my Dharma almost 3 years to get where she is now. She still nips, but it's much more gentle and typically only if she's really excited, or if she wants my attention before I give it to her.

But I can trust her with strangers now, and one day at a pet store, she even snuggled on the lap of a toddler - when I saw the little girl heading for my ferret, I had advised the parents that she still gets overwhelmed sometimes and nips. The parents said their cat does worse than a ferret could do - I sat right beside Dharma and the daughter to make sure I could prevent a nip if it was going to come to it. (I was nervous, but trying not to let Dharma pick up on that.) She let that tiny girl manhandle her, and crawled right back into the little girl's lap! It was amazing, and I was incredibly proud of her. My friend who was working, stared in disbelief with her jaw on the floor. She couldn't believe this was Dharma she was watching. Even 9 months ago, I wouldn't have dared let a child near her!

So it can change! It just takes time. Don't give up on your Komachi! Be more stubborn than she is, and you can get through.
<message edited by xxLAYUPxx on Sunday, July 06, 2014 4:04 PM>
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wacferret

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Monday, July 07, 2014 9:28 PM
Try to figure out why he is biting what is his trigger. We had a foster for a time who had a biting issue. At first we attributed it to fear and we were right (sort-of) He would bite out of fear but also for attention. When we first got him and realized the intensity of his issue we would give him about 1 hour or so of playtime in the playpen, then let him out for free roam. IT helped! He was less apt to bite when he was out for a bit first. His bite became less and less intense and he stopped biting out of fear and only bit for attention. He stopped biting the wife altogether me not so much. I would use a toy as a distraction and play with him also gave me a shield to deflect the bite. If he did get me it was scruff "NO BITESSSS" and a tap on the nose (TAP NOT A FLICK!!! Tap about the same amount of pressure you tap your i-phone not hard just a way to say no and get his attention). If/when he came back for a second taste scruff, "NO BITESSS" and a 2-3min time out. The owner before us had the same issue he would bite everyone but her. His current mommy (someone on this board) says his biting has all but stopped (occasional taste of her hubby though)he is with other fuzzies and is living the high life (for a fuzzy) I did notice that the more play time and attention he had the less he was apt to bite. Maybe get a playpen for your buddy (or if you have a dedicated ferret room use that)and let him play for awhile before you let him out to play with you. Good Luck
xxLAYUPxx

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Monday, July 07, 2014 9:42 PM
I really wouldn't be tapping a ferret's nose, no matter how gentle, since ferret noses are very sensitive. Lots of little nerve endings there.
I love my little skunkers!
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” -Mahatma Ghandi


wacferret

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:11 PM
Well aware of the # of nerve endings hence the TAP NOT FLICK (NEVER EVER FLICK!). It is the same as when you watch the dog whisperer and he Taps the dogs with his foot or uses his hand like a mouth/bite on their neck. It is NEVER meant to hurt them only redirect their attention. He isn't kicking the dog or punching them in the neck and causing any pain, just redirecting their attention. As the dominant one you need to be able to redirect their attention when they fixate on other stimuli, a tap will make them focus on you the ALPHA. A Flick you are using force and impacting the nose and creating a Painful sensation (NOT GOOD, you will not get a ferret to trust you if you cause pain) A Tap you are using to TOUCH (NOT FORCE) to redirect their attention to you and your dominance (Hence done while scruffing) their should be NO force behind the Tap, hence no PAIN. As I said it should be NO more force then you need to tap a smart phone or keyboard. If you are causing them to rear back or squeek/squeal you did it WAY WAY TOO HARD, you should get no more reaction then a blink and maybe a guilty look. It is no different then swatting a child on the butt, not SPANKING/HITTING THEM but a lite swat to say "what do you think you are doing"
xxLAYUPxx

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:40 AM
I would never do that to a child, personally.

And of the dogs we have had, we've not had to emulate the Dog Whisperer. Raising the voice has worked with the dogs (several spaniels, a mutt here and there and a few rottweilers) we have had.

I understand what you're saying about how much force to use, but I still wouldn't encourage that action. I wanted to make sure that anyone reading this thread would know why not to do it. Which is why I mentioned their many nerve endings in ferrets' little noses.

Also, what might seem "gentle" to you or me, may not be to something so much smaller than us.
I love my little skunkers!
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” -Mahatma Ghandi


Halospite

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:54 AM
I'm going to try letting her wear herself out a bit first and see how that goes. :) 

I do think she's attached to me -- she sleeps in my dirty clothes hamper and in my bed, so she must like being around my scent.
leeandparker

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:35 PM
One solution might be a rw diet if not already on one. Ferrets have the instinct to chew being obligate carnivores. Raw diets exercise their jaws so they don't need to chew fingers anymore. Chewing is all mental to them. Satisfying their urge to chew will most likely stop her from biting. 
Halospite

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:32 PM
leeandparker


One solution might be a rw diet if not already on one. Ferrets have the instinct to chew being obligate carnivores. Raw diets exercise their jaws so they don't need to chew fingers anymore. Chewing is all mental to them. Satisfying their urge to chew will most likely stop her from biting. 



She's actually the only ferret I have who doesn't eat raw food -- she refuses to touch any meat I set out for her, she won't even hide it for later like I've had other ferrets do. And others aren't eating her food before she can because she's caged by herself.
leeandparker

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Friday, July 25, 2014 4:54 PM
Sounds like she's being stubborn. I'd continue with trying to switch her diet. She'll go raw eventually. Could she also be a bit bitter that she is separated from the rest?
Halospite

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Thursday, August 07, 2014 8:37 PM
Haven't had much luck so far changing her diet -- I put the meat in a dish and would put some pet milk in there to encourage her to eat. She'll lick the meat clean, but she won't eat it. She's even picked it up in her mouth a couple of times but both times she put it down. That should be a good sign though, right?

She doesn't get along with other ferrets, and she actually gets quite stressed and more bitey than usual if I let another one of our ferrets out in my room.
TomHeretic

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Friday, August 08, 2014 8:41 AM
They usually won't switch straight to meat chunks, you have to ease them into it with soups. I wouldn't bother with the pet milk, just make a soup out of ground meat and water. It is a good sign that she is picking up the meat, she wants it but doesn't know what to do with it yet!
Halospite

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Re:A year later, bite training still isn't working. - Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:04 AM
I'll try this and let you know how it goes. :)

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